As the creator ofThe Thick of ItandVeep, not to mention the writer/director behindThe Death of Stalin,Armando Iannuccihas become a ruthless chronicler of how damn absurd politics can be on multiple continents. Which is why he fully acknowledged during a recent phone interview with Collider that his latest film,The Personal History of David Copperfield, is quite different from those more cynical projects.
Instead, Iannucci’s irreverent adaptation of theCharles Dickensclassic, available now on VOD, is something he wanted to make feel “hopeful and optimistic and joyful.” Anchored by a performance byDev Patelthat once again reminds us how big a movie star Dev Patel deserves to be, the period drama is a bright, slightly irreverent take on the classic that features a stunning ensemble, includingPeter Capaldi,Morfydd Clark,Hugh Laurie,Tilda Swinton,Ben Whishaw, andPaul Whitehouse.
Below, Iannucci reveals just how he goes about bringing together casts like the above, why exactly this felt like the right time for him to take on something new in terms of tone, and offers an update on where things stand in terms of his HBO space comedy seriesAvenue 5. He also says what he thinks about being referred to as a “satirist,” and offers his take on how anyone could possibly satirize the current state of American politics.
It’s really interesting to watchDavid Copperfieldin consideration of so much of the political stuff you’ve done over the last several years. I know that Dickens is, of course, a longtime passion of yours, but in your head, is this something that’s separate from the political projects you’ve done?
IANNUCCI: I don’t know. I mean, I suppose when I was doing things likeVeepandIn The Loop, and so on, maybe if I knew I was going to do a Dickens, at that time I might have thought of doing a more political one likeLittle DorritorBleak Houseor something. But when I re-readDavid Copperfield, I realized how kind of intimate and personal and contemporary it felt. I just instantly felt I wanted to make it, really. And I felt I could make it resonate with how do we think about ourselves now. David is very much trying to work out who he is and paranoid about whether he’s accepted in whatever circle he moves in. It seemed very relevant. But also the message of hope in it and community and so on. After doingVeepand thenDeath of Stalin— which was very the other way, it was very bleak — I felt I wanted to make something that felt hopeful and optimistic and joyful, really. So maybe it’s just a question of how I’ve been feeling over the last two or three years, just instinctively how I wanted my next thing to be.
It makes sense. I feel like if you almost have to switch things up from time to time, just to stay sane.
IANNUCCI: Yeah, absolutely. Whenever I’ve done one thing the next thing I try to make as different from it as possible. So with television and with doingVeep, I’m now doingAvenue 5, which is space and set in the future. And I suppose afterThe Death of Stalin, which was such a bleak… I mean, I really enjoyed making the film, but in terms of the issues and the themes and so on, it was such a dark kind of experience and true, but it seemed fitting to then move to something that was fictional and yet hopeful.
The idea of you working onDavid CopperfieldandAvenue 5simultaneously is a very amusing idea for some reason.
IANNUCCI: Well, it was sort of one after the other, except they both came out at the same time, but they were shot in sequence. Yeah. So it’s just the way films come out. We shot David Copperfield one summer and Avenue 5 the summer after it. That’s the way these things emerge. It looks like they were happening at the same time, but I can tell you they definitely weren’t. Yeah, I’m not sure I would have been able to cope with that kind of contrast going on all the time.
One enduring thing across all of your projects is that you really know how to bring in a great ensemble — what’s the secret to that? What have you found in terms of finding the right blend of cast to come together?
IANNUCCI: I mean, I love working with ensembles. Obviously in this film Dev Patel is practically in every scene in it. He’s front and central, but we always knew it would be an ensemble piece in terms of all the many characters around. My casting director, Sarah Crowe, I’ve worked with her for the last 20 years, so we kind of understand each other. She’s very good at finding… She comes across someone interesting, even if I haven’t written something that suits that actor, she’ll make sure that I meet that actor or she puts that actor on tape, just because she knows that maybe two or three years after that I’ll then think of something. So it’s about that.
But also, I think building up the ensemble slowly… Obviously, we started with Dev and then we say, “Okay, who’s going to be Betsey and Mr. Dick?” So once we have Tilda and she’s already in place, we go, “Okay, so who then is going to be Agnes?” What I don’t do is send all the parts out to 20 different people at once. I cast one or two parts, then think who would make the best compliment for those two or three people.
And then once we have it as four or five people who we know are on board, “Okay. Seven and eight. Who would be the best new voice to add to this group?” And so we cast out like that. And I also like to cast early, so that we can get everyone together and we can all get to know each other and play around with the script and rehearse for a couple of weeks and just get to know each other so that by the time we’re shooting everyone is sort of gotten to the skin of the characters, really.
I like to choose people who are comfortable improvising slightly. We have a very specific script that we work to, but I always encourage people to free it up and always to bring their own suggestions in. And I think that means that inevitably we get people who are comfortable being very spontaneous — making everything feel a little bit more natural.
Has it ever happened that you’ve been in the rehearsal phase and, not for any slight against them, but just for whatever reason, somebody is not working out?
IANNUCCI: Not at the stage of rehearsals, no. Usually it’s the casting process. And usually it’s because, as I said, I’m looking for someone who’s quite happy to be kind of collaborative. And sometimes you may meet people who are fantastic talents, but you think, “Do you know what? That’s not going to work in the mix that we’re after.” There’s something specific. It’s being able to be non-proprietorial about what you’re doing. If you come up with a suggestion it might develop and then it might involve someone else, as well. But everything contributes to the whole. And it’s the whole that we’re after, not someone’stour de forceperformance or someone stealing a scene or something like that.
Obviously, I’m looking for those highlights as we progress through it, but it’s about the sense of being part of the team. It’s being a team player, really. So normally we try and ensure just by talking to people and meeting them, that everyone’s signing up for something where they know they’re going to be required to be a team player. I’m sure lot of actors, that’s great. They like it. They like it. It feels like they’re doing something almost back on the stage in a way, that kind of live feel. Yeah.
One thing I really appreciate about the approach you have here is in a more traditional production you would not normally get to see such a wide range of people of different ethnicities playing these characters.
IANNUCCI: There wasn’t an overtly political decision. Really. It was more, I could only think of Dev playing David. That was it. I knew I was thinking about David Copperfield and was thinking who could play him. And I was thinking of this person, that person, and then I kept going back to Dev. And I knew Dev could play comic and vulnerable and awkward, growing up and all that. It was when I saw him inLionbeing very strong and powerful and still. I immediately went, “That’s David Copperfield,” and once that thought I had entered my head, it wouldn’t leave. I had to have Dev and I was so grateful he said yes. And then once that happens, you then think, “Okay, that’s how I should cast everyone. I should cast the person who I just feel instinctively they are the part, they inhabit, they possess the soul of that character.”
It’s something that has been going on in theater for decades, but strangely film is very literal about these things. Yes, it’s set in 1840 in London and so on, but it’s a film, it’s not a documentary. It’s a story. And the reason I’m making this and adapting this old, old story is because I feel it’s relevant and worth telling now, and that it appeals to the world now. And it’s important that I think the audience there can see themselves up on the screen. I want people to feel that this story is happening in front of them now. That the cast, the characters, they are in 1840, but for them, that’s the present. So they should behave like they’re in the present. In their present. And, well, there aren’t that many cinemas open at the moment, but the audience at home should feel that they could stand up and walk into the screen, really, and still feel at home.
So when you Google your name, Google has the little text that pops up to define the search term. You’re listed as a “satirist” — is that a definition you’re comfortable with?
IANNUCCI: Well, I’ve got used to it, but it sort of implies that I wake up every morning thinking, “What shall I satirize today?” I’m a writer. I write comedy. I love comedy. I suppose a lot of my targets are to do with how we behave and how organizations behave. But I’m a huge fan of the satirical tradition fromMonty Pythonand then David Frost and Dudley Moore, and Peter Cook and going right back to Dickens, I suppose. He’s satire. So, it’s not one I’m uncomfortable with, but I can’t but feel it sort of feels a little bit formal.
Along those lines, in America we’re dealing with the madness that’s going on right now. Do you feel like this is a period of time that’s something you could figure out a way of satirizing at any point?
IANNUCCI: Wow, where do you begin? I mean, it’s so kind of satirizing itself because it’s all about unreality, really, isn’t it? It’s this strange new narrative [Trump]’s trying to fly that he’s still President and will go on being President, and in a lot of people’s minds he still will go on being. A lot of people who voted for him will, in their head, convince themselves they’re in the second Trump administration for the next four years. I’m not sure of what the comedic way into that is because it is so, in itself, profoundly distorted and unreal. How do you make it more unreal and distorted?
You basically just have to do it straight.
IANNUCCI: Yeah. I know. Which is why you people turn to people like John Oliver and so on, who have journalists, who have researchers do their research and actually construct an argument. Bill Maher, I suppose, actually just sitting down with journalists and writers and experts to mull over what’s happening in front of us.
To wrap things up, what do you hope people really take away from the film?
IANNUCCI: I hope it’s an appreciation of those who look out for them and look after them, really, whether it’s family or friends or community. Beyond that, if it inspires people to read Dickens or to read about the time or to read about the history, then that’s great, as well. Or if it just turns people to reading, that’s great. But fundamentally it’s there as an entertainment and as something for all generations and hopefully it leave them with a positive message about themselves, actually.
That’s lovely. Yeah, Dickens doesn’t get enough credit for just being a really fun read.
IANNUCCI: He’s really funny. Funny, funny writer.
Thank you again so much for your time today, and I’m looking forward toAvenue 5Season 2. Hopefully that’s going well?
IANNUCCI: Yeah. We start shooting in about three weeks.
Wow, good luck.
IANNUCCI: Yes, I know. We might need it. Thank you.
The Personal History of David Copperfieldis available now on VOD. For more, check out the below featurette on making the film.
